[SonicAD]

There's also the possibility of a Michigan group with me, SJ, and possibly SBW... pending having proper capture equipment.

[Selphos]

What about the ten thousand people in New York and the surrounding area? >_>

[P.P.A.]

PPA the latter would take way too fucking long

My point exactly.

Also since I seem to be the only German here and I'm only feeling safe at home anyway I think it'd be reasonable if I played alone and not in a group.
Oh, with this being a live stream I assume, do I need a webcam or something?

[Combo]

There's also the possibility of a Michigan group with me, SJ, and possibly SBW... pending having proper capture equipment.

I is at chicago Ill. though im only 15 :(. I wish Taco would join. If I were to somehow join this, I would just want to do a speedrun of SAdv2.

[SonicAD]

Also, to encourage donations, we could do mini-challenges within the games, and see if we can get people to agree to donate if we meet them.

We could also make a price for choosing, say, which soundtrack to use on Sonic CD.

[The T]

I think the mini-challenges might extend the games a bit *too* much. I think going for all Chaos Emerald/Good endings would be the best sort of challenge.

As for Sonic CD, there's really no way to... choose which one we use on the fly, I don't think...

[SonicAD]

As for Sonic CD, there's really no way to... choose which one we use on the fly, I don't think...

I have a US original and a JP burned copy. So yes, we can.

[Aitamen]

Hmm... very interesting.

I think Sonic would be the best series to do a solid (read:marathon) run of...

I would opt to participate, but I'm completely inconsistant, and currently have no working hardware (controller damage for Gen/SCD, and lack of cords for my saturn/Dreamcast... I have mega collection, but I despise my controller (all I have is a homebrew hybrid which is tourny-illegal))

I do, however, want to see it happen.  If Samus gets her games played, Sonic should get his too...

stupid samus with her boobs and whatnot....

>_>  *runs like a bitch*

[CosmicFalcon]

I updated the first post's game list. Look:

Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) - Collect all Emeralds and finish.
Sonic the Hedgehog CD - Collect time stones? and finish.
[Tails solo games here?]
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Collect all Emeralds and finish.
[Spinball here?]
[Chaotix here? Where does this fit in 'continuity'?]
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Knuckles - Collect all Emeralds and finish as Sonic and Knuckles.
[3D Blast here?]
Sonic Advance - Complete Sonic's story with all Emeralds.
Sonic Adventure DX - Complete each character's story and Final.
Sonic Advance 2 - Complete Sonic's story with all Emeralds.
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Complete both stories and Final.
Sonic Battle - Complete story mode.
Sonic Heroes - Collect all Emeralds, complete all stories and Final.
Sonic Advance 3 - Complete with Sonic and Tails with all Emeralds.
Shadow the Hedgehog - ???
[Sonic Rush here?]
Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) - Complete all stories and Final.
[Sonic Rush Adventure here?]
Sonic Unleashed - ???
Sonic Shuffle [?] - Bonus.

Out of order:
Sonic R? Riders? Rivals? Secret Rings? Game Gear games? Should these be bonus games after the end of the 'main' run, like Shuffle, or included in some proper place?
I also think that running SSBB Classic Mode with Sonic would be a nice bonus 'game'.

What I like about the latter part of this 'chronology' order is the alternation between handheld and console titles. It'll add a lot of variety, though may cause some logistical issues. Opinions?

[P.P.A.]

Japanese. It's the only true one.

[Taillow]

For Sonic Advance 2, we'd need all the characters (save Amy) completed to reach True Area 53.  And all emeralds with Sonic.  I dunno about emeralds about other characters, but still--drat!  I just remembered you UNLOCK characters too.  Perhaps forget True Area 53?

For Sonic Advance 3, you have to get all the chao and then get a key to have a CHANCE of getting an emerald.  And the keys almost always require re-entry to a previous level (unless it appears ahead of the last grabbed chao).  So I dunno if I would suggest Nonaggression.

For Shadow, I suggest... I dunno.  All levels?  All endings to get to The Last Way would take twice as long, and this game in itself forces level repetition.

Riders Story Mode wouldn't be that bad of an idea.  But only as a bonus.

For the Genesis games, I don't think emeralds are really necessary...  Except 3&K.  That's necessary.  Sonic 3D Blast... optional, I guess.  But it works all the same.

Also IRC chat brought up a general idea of seperate teams, but I'm not copying the lines.

[CosmicFalcon]

How I envisage this will work is having 'teams' of members who can be in the same place geographically. From current numbers it seems like we may well get a UK team and two US teams. Each team needs a capture card and a room card. That's a necessity.

Because people need to sleep over the course of the marathon, the team that is actually running the stream, etc, will need to change (as teams are going to be of 3-4 people it seems). Then, any people playing games from other locations (be it Germany, Australia, the Moon) would stream their game (capture card if possible) and an additional voice/room cam feed to the active team, who can add it to the main stream. This causes a huge delay but means the active team's room cam can still be on, and avoids having a single person running the show for any length of time.

Skype could be a useful tool for voice feeds. Other than that, multiple Ustream feeds would work for getting video to each other.

When a team is playing a game there needs to be decisions such as is one person running the game, or are we switching players after each zone? Who is manning the chat? But this will be decided much later.

[The T]

On the topic of length of time for Emerald Collection...

Sonic 1 wouldn't really be much longer with it. Just would mean the player would make an active attempt to get 50 rings on at least 6 of the Acts, and then play a really short Special Stage. Game could easily be beaten in 40 minutes.

Sonic 2 would probably be a bit longer, but really not more than an hour and a half. Having Super Sonic for the later levels could speed things up as well.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles, of course agreed.

For these ones, I have no idea about, so enlighten me:

Sonic Advance 2, wouldn't that essentially just be 3 normal playthroughs, plus 1 playthrough with Sonic going through extra work to get the Chaos Emeralds? That couldn't take more than 2 hours, could it?

Sonic Advance 3, what's the whole key and chao thing? Could someome estimate how long completing the game would take in this case, how difficult it would be, etc.?

I think the Riders games have just as much right to be in the game as, say, the Drift games. They have a story mode, and the story mode isn't relatively long. We just have to make sure someone good at the games is playing so that no levels are lost and have to be repeated. Riders definetly wouldn't need to be completed any further than Story mode, though.

For Shadow... how long would seeing all 10 endings actually take? I mean, the 3D games were going to take longer in the first place. SA, SA2, Heroes, S360 would take long anyway, so it's not like Shadow being long is that big a deal.

I am willing to concede that getting the Emeralds in the GG ones that have it seems largely useless, but it also wouldn't make the times on them much longer and would show off skill.

[Groudon]

For Shadow... how long would seeing all 10 endings actually take? I mean, the 3D games were going to take longer in the first place. SA, SA2, Heroes, S360 would take long anyway, so it's not like Shadow being long is that big a deal.

That depends on which story paths you take.  Perhaps by taking a look at each individual mission time, the 10 best paths could be found.

[The T]

I've never played Shadow and only have a rough view of how it works, but fo reach potential path, all the stages would still be played, correct? If so, someone should absolutely plan a route out for that game and see. [Don't include the best times for each mission on the chart, obviously, but more of a average time or the time of whoever's playing.]

[Taillow]

For Shadow... how long would seeing all 10 endings actually take? I mean, the 3D games were going to take longer in the first place. SA, SA2, Heroes, S360 would take long anyway, so it's not like Shadow being long is that big a deal.

That depends on which story paths you take.  Perhaps by taking a look at each individual mission time, the 10 best paths could be found.

Even then there'd still be repetition.  The closest thing you'll get to non-repetition is doing different missions on the same stages, and that'd still be the same stages, somewhat.  That may not keep the viewers.  And remember that it's not just going through the game itself, but the fact people are watching.

HOWEVER...  Perhaps if five of the endings are completed beforehand...

[Groudon]

I'm not sure if each stage should be played or just the fastest available levels.  Finding 10 paths that go through each level at least once could work.  Okay, maybe 5 would be better.  I also think the Last Story should also be played.

Only thing I'm not sure about is if the game should be played on a new save (with cutscenes you can't skip the first time, no secret keys collected, and no special weapons initially) or on a completed save (skippable cutscenes, all keys, and all weapons from the start).

In addition, since the game has an Expert Mode, perhaps a run through that mode might be doable?  It'll have to be done on a 100% file due to the unlock method.

[Taillow]

I personally think it should be as simple as going through each level at least once so the viewers who haven't played it know of the places.  Meaning a minimum of five routes.  The 100% idea is brilliant as the biggest difference for new users is skippable cutscenes.  Which are optionally skipped, so they can watch them.  And I'd suggest saving expert modes for the bonus category.

[The T]

I don't see why keeping viewers in that case is such a huge issue, nor playing through the same stage twice. For Heroes, the same stages are going to be played through 4 times. Things like that will give people a chance to, you know, actually go to sleep or get food or the like.

I don't really understand how 5 is a fair compromise, could someone explain it to me? I feel like it would be defeating the spirit of "beating" all these games, as they wouldn't technically be beaten. That's why I think clean saves are best.

You do bring up another good point, about cutscenes. How many games have skippable cutscenes on a fresh save? Do we want to keep cutscenes in? I think they could be interesting to watch, I have no idea if they'd extend the runs too long, though.

[Taillow]

...good points, I guess.  Though I don't know the average attention span or if people want to see repeats or not for those that are watching...

Also you need a minimum of five routes to go through every stage.  And I said skippable cutscenes don't matter because it's optional to skip them.  Just don't skip them on a run.

Also I was under the impression we were just going to show levels for the sake of showing the levels.  I would like to know the intent of this.

[The T]

The intentions afaik would be, in order:

A. To make money for a charity.
B. To entertain.
C. To show "Beating the game" runs for as many games on that list as possible.
D. To show "100%" runs for as many games on that list as possible, preferably in order of most feasible.

The issue kind of comes around with what constitutes beating and what constitutes 100%. I think 100%ing say, Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 would be getting all the emeralds. But for S3&K, getting all the Emeralds would just be part of beating it due to Doomsday Zone.

The split screen thing I talked about, if we really wanted to we could do that during some of the weaker spots of Shadow and Heroes. If we do, we should only do that if people in the chat seem to want it at the time, and we can just run it on the fly.

In addition, after the run is over, I see the split screen thing as going like, On one screen someone earning emblems in SA or SA2, while on the other, someone does a full completion of an Advance game or plays through S2 or S3&K with Knuckles. Stuff like that.

[CosmicFalcon]

The intent is threefold. A game marathon is typically a sort of show of endurance, continually playing games for a prolonged length of time (in a tag team), and a series or 'theme' of games is usually chosen. By selecting the Sonic series, and having this marathon done "by TSC", we demonstrate that we play Sonic and are serious about it, and can show off some neat gameplay. By broadcasting this 'thon, and making it interesting to watch, we can hopefully gain a lot of viewers who will raise a lot of money for charity. Take, for example, the Metroid marathon currently running, which has raised almost $5400.

Taking all that into account, you can see that the gameplay is not necessarily all there is to it. It is, however, the part that we - as a whole - can do and do well. So we are starting from there and working toward where we need to be for the marathon.

The whole thing has to be entertaining, both the players as well as what they're playing. Audience participation is important so players need to keep an eye on the chat. Such interaction can also be very important to acquire maximum donations. Ustream also has a poll system, and I would suggest we come up with a series of polls to run ahead of time, as well as adding some on the fly.

Speaking of on the fly: A lot of changes may be made. 48, 72 or 100 hours is quite a long time. People will need to be very adaptable.

The purpose is not really to demonstrate each game. It is to demonstrate our ability to play them by beating them efficiently. When I say 'not particularly a speed run' I more or less mean it's not like we're aiming for the records on each level. I mean think about it, when you are time attacking, how many times do you quit and restart halfway? What we want is nice coherent runs.

To that end, for a lot of these games we must define what 'beating' it is. I think a lot of games with added levels and bosses (i.e. 'Final' stories) sort of make this obvious. The problem arises in Shadow because EVERY path starts with Westopolis. Getting all endings takes 10 paths - or rather, 5 paths twice. That means every level is repeated at least once. Doing all levels takes 5 paths, but still requires 13 level repetitions I believe. I suggested, originally, doing the true hero, neutral and true dark paths. If we are going to limit the stages we do play, those are the least arbitrary paths - if anything they're the only paths at ALL that make sense. And it eliminates all level repetition except Westopolis. To avoid all level repetition, we would limit ourselves to one path only.

About Advance 2. Somebody said, 'Is it not just three normal runs, then Sonic plus Emeralds?" Problem is, the three supporting characters are unlocked during Sonic's game. Seeing them unlocked adds a little interest to the playthrough, too.


This may call for some across the board definition of beating. We could define it as, say, reaching the credits (or at -least- reaching the credits). Ideas?

[The T]

Well the run for Advance 2 would basically be... play Sonic up till Egg Utopia, collecting Emeralds along the way. Then beat it with the other 3, and then have Sonic beat XX Zone and True Area 53.

I am conflicted with Shadow. I really, REALLY don't think repeating stages is that big a deal. It will be done in Heroes. It will be done in other games. If people watching really find it boring, we could always start up a split second feed to be starting another game or something. [If this is the case, we'll probably need to rework the order of games... I figure we'll have to anyway with 3 groups.] So.

[douglas]

Well the run for Advance 2 would basically be... play Sonic up till Egg Utopia, collecting Emeralds along the way. Then beat it with the other 3, and then have Sonic beat XX Zone and True Area 53.

I am conflicted with Shadow. I really, REALLY don't think repeating stages is that big a deal. It will be done in Heroes. It will be done in other games. If people watching really find it boring, we could always start up a split second feed to be starting another game or something. [If this is the case, we'll probably need to rework the order of games... I figure we'll have to anyway with 3 groups.] So.

It would also be dull - who wants to watch the same game beaten over and over again?  I call one run through each game to keep some interest in the thing.

[The T]

But then that isn't one run through a game, that's part of a run... That would be like saying, oh, we're only going to play Sonic's story in Sonic Adventure, or we're only going to play Hero Side in SA2.

If we're going to have a consistent rule, then it has to actually be consistent. The Metroid Marathon guys are on their 3rd run-through of Prime. What you don't seem to get is that viewers are cycling in and out. Many have stayed, but new ones come in throughout the course of the run, and some old ones leave because of other obligations.

[douglas]

But then that isn't one run through a game, that's part of a run... That would be like saying, oh, we're only going to play Sonic's story in Sonic Adventure, or we're only going to play Hero Side in SA2.

If we're going to have a consistent rule, then it has to actually be consistent. The Metroid Marathon guys are on their 3rd run-through of Prime. What you don't seem to get is that viewers are cycling in and out. Many have stayed, but new ones come in throughout the course of the run, and some old ones leave because of other obligations.

Oh I get that bit, I just don't think there's any value in playing adv2 with all characters given that it's all much the same.  With the others, the difference is much more marked (in Adventure they get different levels).  A good comparison is Knux in S2 where you take pretty much the same routes and the game path is the same, with Knux in S3&K where he has his own routes and game path.  I think there's enough content for us to go through to not have to double up, and even if we do then we should do it with the most well-known and enjoyed games of the series (which adv2 is not).

Having said that, I'm happy to do multiple runs if people want.

[ChaoRC]

Long post ahead afgak...

I guess some voting would help out here on what we should do. I think finding out what we want is a good place to start.

-Should we collect all emeralds?
-Which games would you like to be feature in the playthough and which are "excessive baggage"?
-What about games with the same title but are featured in different platforms (Sonic 1 Genesis/Game Gear versions)? 
-What about the final story/boss/levels?
-Any game should be played as Sonic/SS unless a variation of playstyle and layouts are available.
-If another character can do a certain stage faster than Sonic, should they be switched for the time being?
-What about Tails? Should a second player be controlled? It'll help in Hydrocity 1 in the beginning, bosses, and a few other areas.

So in order of mainstream games:

Classic-
Sonic 1, Sonic CD, (SegaSonic Arcade?), Sonic 2 (with Tails?) S3&K, (Knuckles' Chaotix?) Sonic 3dBlast, (Sonic the Fighters?), and then Sonic R(?)

-Sonic CD can be a bit problematic whether we should go to the past and future stages, US vs EU/JP soundtrack, and Time Stones collection.
-For Sonic 3, two playthroughs; one for Sonic's story, and then another for Knuckles'.
-Sonic R=should we do this? If so what about unlocking characters and difficulty settings?

Modern-
(Sonic Pocket Adventure?), Sonic Adventue (DX?), (Sonic Shuffle?), Sonic Adventue 2 (Battle?), Sonic Advance, Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Rush, Sonic Battle, Sonic Advance 3, (Sonic Riders?).

-Should we playthrough all the other three teams in Sonic Heroes?
-Playing through Rush from start to finish with both characters can be finished quickly; whether we should get to the final boss or not.
-For Shadow, I think the best tactic would be to do each stage once. Getting a file that has already completed the final boss will take out repetition of levels. We could just take different routes until each stage is eventually played, then move onto the final story. The other tactic would be to do "everything" and start from a non-save. This can take quite a few hours to do, so I really would suggest to avoid it. Most of the level objectives are monotonous work and time consuming anyway; it'll get boring quickly.
-For Advance 2, I guess we could do the same thing and just do a play though from start to finish on an all character save file and play as Sonic and get all emeralds, then move on to True Area 53. Another idea would be to show the storylines of unlocking the characters, stop recoding and do Tails, Knuckles, and Cream fully while recording another game; and then move onto True Area 53.
-Sonic Advance 3 has different team work aspects and I think that character switching should be done every so often when feasible.

Current-
Sonic '06 D:, (Rivals?), Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Riders 2: Shooting Star Story, (Rivals 2?), Unleashed, (Dark Brotherhood?), (Black Night?) D:

I'm not up to speed with most of these games. So I wouldn't know what not to do. I guess just play through Story mode and finish should be the easiest feat.

I've omitted all of the Game Gear and puzzle games and gave a question mark to those weather we should do or not as optional. We also have crossovers (Christmas NiGHTS, Superstar Tennis and Mario-Olympics) which should be put on a league of their own. I say that all of those listed up first up here should be done first. If time persists, we can go back to do the others. Doing the final bosses and collecting the emeralds aren't that hard, to do.

Edit: Cleared up a few things and forgot a few games.

[The T]

-For Advance 2, I guess we could do the same thing and just do a play though from start to finish on an all character save file and play as Sonic and get all emeralds, then move on to True Area 53. Another idea would be to show the storylines of unlocking the characters, stop recoding and do Tails, Knuckles, and Cream fully while recording another game; and then move onto True Area 53.

How about this, but for all games that could be deemed too long. Possibly Shadow's extra stories. Heroes' other characters.

The problem with this, though, is dividing attention too much...

I'm also not big on the idea of doing a seperate S3&K run for Knuckles, but eh.

I guess we really should just have a poll of, which is more important: Clean save files showing a completion of the game as it's "meant" to be done, or just running through all the stages?

[CosmicFalcon]

I'm more in favour of beating games as they were 'meant' to be done.

With regards to S3&K, I did have the idea that after doing Sonic (or Sonic and Tails) through it, we could do Knuckles in S&K only. In S3 the differences tend to be more minor I think?

Also, should we do S3&K together or separately? If above I had said I was in favour of 'doing all the stages' I would probably have said separately, that way you get the extra boss. But personally I feel they should be one game. So, second poll (omg two at the same time? crazy): S3 and S&K or S3&K?

[douglas]

-Should we collect all emeralds?

iono, that would be full completion but then TSC is primarily a speedrunning site, so showing that off would be cool too.  It would be embarrassing in, say adv2, if you missed one and had to restart >_>

-Which games would you like to be feature in the playthough and which are "excessive baggage"?

I'd go for more games before more playthroughs, personally.  Also Spinball amirite? (NO PINBALL PARTY PPA).

-What about games with the same title but are featured in different platforms (Sonic 1 Genesis/Game Gear versions)? 

They're different games entirely, chuck 'em in.

-What about the final story/boss/levels?

Depends on the game.  I wouldn't say TA53 is necessary for adv2, but you have to do sufficiently different stuff in Adventure that full completion would work.

-Any game should be played as Sonic/SS unless a variation of playstyle and layouts are available.

I'd be pro a full Knux run through S3&K, actually - his routes are sufficiently different.

-If another character can do a certain stage faster than Sonic, should they be switched for the time being?

Not just for speed, no.  We want it to be interesting and demonstrate skill.

-What about Tails? Should a second player be controlled? It'll help in Hydrocity 1 in the beginning, bosses, and a few other areas.

I like this because more people involved = win.  Dunno what others think though.